help with training

[Dook]

Good Luck with the dog, I spent alot of time and money on a dog with those traits at 6 months, the trainer made him more timid and scared to death of your hands, I have taken him duck hunting 2wice, both times of which that dog laid in the bottom of the boat scared to death and shivering from the cold. He works OK on the training field, but has no desire to please or impress you, much less retrieve.

Some dogs just don't have it, and the longer a dog lives with no formal training, the longer it takes to rid them of the bad habits you allowed him to develop in the first 8 months of his life.


Fish, tell us you really feel? [img]graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[Fish]

Sure thing Dookster.

First, dogs DO NOT possess a desire to please. This is bullshit no matter what anybody says. I'm not going to take the time to explain it to you other than to say its nothing more than feel good terminology very much like the word "talent". It just doesn't exist.

Second, "old dogs can't learn new tricks" is even bigger bullshit than your "desire to please" comment. If you new anything about a dog (whatsoever) you would not have typed that ignorant crap.

You would be better served just staying the hell out of the dog forum Dookie.

[Dook]

Talk about self proclaimed professionals

Where did I say "old dogs can't learn new tricks?"

Maybe if your dog didn't hate your ass like most on this forum, he would be a little more eager to please. Oh, but wait, that doesn't really exist.

You lonely, unhappy fuckstick!

[img]graemlins/fu2.gif[/img]

[Fish]

Oh but Dookie, if it were only that simple...

If a dog had desires, they would be in the following order.

One: Spreading his/her genetic material as often and with as many partners as possible. In that respect, they are very much like some of guys I used to professionally drink with.

Two: Eating - a distant second to the first.

However, these "desires" are more appropriately described as physiological needs. The "desire" you are trying to describe is the feeling YOU get when a dog returns with a bird, tail wagging.

Why would you try to put your feelings into him? Probably the same reason tree and bunny huggers get all misty everytime a tree is cut down of a bunny is run over, only your feelings aren't as deep. It's called personification and it does not accurately describe how a dog looks at the world.

For what its worth, when a dog is chasing bumpers or retreiving birds for you they are satisfying three things. The dog is maintaining close proximity to the alpha, he is satisfying his routine of following certain orders given by the lead dog, and he is satisfying the natural chase/hunt instinct. Most importantly in my mind, he is always gonna stay as close as possible to the alpha just in case an opprotunity presents itself for him to take the lead as the alpha. He is always thinking about being alpha because this would allow him first shot at spreading his genetic material. This is the way they think, in varying degrees, regardless of whether they are nuetered, young, old, male, female, etc, etc.

Its just the way it is.

[Fish]

And for the learning impaired...

"...the longer a dog lives with no formal training, the longer it takes to rid them of the bad habits you allowed him to develop in the first 8 months of his life."

is equal to

Can't teach and old dog new tricks.

[Dook]

Thanks Dr. Doo little!


[img]graemlins/devil-flip.gif[/img]

[duckduckdog]

So, I think we finally settled it, Fish thinks like a dog!

[Duckman#1]

So Fish tell us how many dogs have you trained and to what level(s)? Just wondering!

[Dook]

Originally posted by Fish:
And for the learning impaired...

"...the longer a dog lives with no formal training, the longer it takes to rid them of the bad habits you allowed him to develop in the first 8 months of his life."

is equal to

Can't teach and old dog new tricks.

Whatever you anal bastard, go get an 8 month old rescue from the pound and an 8 week old from any fuckin where, and tell me which one learns faster?

The dog can and will learn, there will be habits that are tuff to break and stubbornness to deal with, and your hind-ass can take that to the mutherfucking dog training bank.


You just think you know everything.

[Fish]

I have one finished dog. However, I did once swim with a guy who trains dogs. [img]graemlins/lamoo.gif[/img]

But really, who gives a fuck? There ain't nothing new about any of that. You should already know it. Or, do you have some other idea about why dogs do the things they do. And more importantly, are you taking this personally and do you wanna argue about it? [img]graemlins/devil-flip.gif[/img]

I'm dying to hear what you have to say.

[Fish]

Originally posted by Dookie:


The dog can and will learn, there will be habits that are tuff to break and stubbornness to deal with, and your hind-ass can take that to the mutherfucking dog training bank.

Now look who's the know-it-all? [img]graemlins/lamoo.gif[/img]

Dipshit...

[SkinneeJ]

Originally posted by Dookie:
Thanks Dr. Doo little!


[img]graemlins/devil-flip.gif[/img]

That's funny... I bet those fuckers are tazering your dog. I'm definitely no dog expert, but doggystyle is my favorite position so that gives me a little credibility here.

Anyway, how does your dog act around company (like visitors)? Does he shy away from everyone or just the dog trainer? I would think about socializing him more with other dogs and people to get him used to being in the company of strangers. Maybe even have a neighbor baby sit the dog for a couple of days to see how the dog acts. If the dog is fine around everyone else, then switch trainers. If the dog shys around everyone, then you might just have to train him yourself.

[Duckman#1]

Just wondering if you were one of those that trys to talk like they can train a dog but pay someone else to od it.

But really, who gives a fuck?

Bottom line? NO ONE!

[Duckman#1]

like the word "talent". It just doesn't exist.

Thats BULLSHIT ! I guess all dogs are created equel? I guess Jurney told you that crap and you boought it.

Do yourself a favor and buy Charley Jurney's book or CD entitled "Finished Dog".

NO , do yourself a favor and buy something up to date. There's a lot better stuff out there!

[ducks031205]

Well I can honestly say that at the very least this is getting interesting and FUNNY AS HELL! To answer your question SKINNYJ she does well around other people and dogs...she has been out with friends of mine, and was kept by a friend while we were on our honeymoon and did fine, but in all of those cases there were only 1 or 2 other dogs around...not 40 like at the trainer's. Thanks again for all of the help guys!

[Riverdog]

Originally posted by Fish:
I have one finished dog.

I'm just a bystander in this conversation, but I would like to know what's the name of your "Finished" dog so I can look it up at the next hunt test.

I've seen DM#1's dog and Costa's dog run at the Finished level. It would be interesting to compare training philosophies with observed results...... you know, the "I hit my dog in the head" vs "You're an idiot if you hit your dog in the head" philosophies.

[BrownDog]

Fish – It is obvious you don’t know anything about dogs. I occasionally train with an older gentleman who thinks much like you.
Ducks - You will learn allot from the Smartwork books. If you get a chance to go to a seminar it is very helpful. Evan is very willing to help answer any question. His web sit is www.rushcreekpress.com

[HuntinCosta]

Evan also frequents dancindogproductions.com

The waterdog forum is a very good source for information. Not all the BS.

[Candor]

A good dog trainer can pick up more than just the obvious. If yall applied that logic when bantering with Fish it wouldn't be so damn repetitive in here.

[Duckman#1]

Yes, but it would get boring !