Spray foam insulation

[uga_dawg]

Can anyone recommend someone that does spray foam insulation in the attic around the Manning area?

I've got an old farm house that has very little ventilation in the attic now. I have a ridge vent, a couple of small gables, but my soffits are sealed.

Seems that people are divided on the issue of attic ventilation vs sealing it up. So I've got to decide if I want to spend money adding ventilation or sealing it up. Right now, I'm leaning towards sealing it up.

[Saltydog235]

Encapsulation only works to your benefit if done as an entire system. IE if your walls and floor aren't part of they system then you are paying for some expensive as hell insulation that won't do much more than a R-38 batt system (2 layers of R-19 laid perpendicular to one another). And cut in some eave vents and install baffles to allow air flow.

Think of it this way, you have a Yeti Cooler top sitting on top of one of those plastic milk crates with a block of ice in it sitting in the sun. The top might protect it from the direct sun but it isn't going to keep it from melting. You just got one expensive crate top.

[uga_dawg]

That is definitely one of my questions. Right now, most of my interior walls are open to my crawlspace. So most of my attic ventilation is coming up from the crawlspace. So the walls are cold to the touch in the winter.

I have a plan in the works for walls and windows. But need help trying to decide what I want to do with my crawlspace and attic.

[SCSwitchback]

If you want to talk to someone who does it shoot me a pm. My friend does this stuff and I can give you his number.

[willyworm]

Encapsulation only works to your benefit if done as an entire system.

Not true. I used to sell it and spray it in. We sprayed open cell foam in the whole roof line of a house on a slab and it cut his attic temp down from 120+ deg to about mid 90's on a hot summer afternoon. He's enjoyed better comfort levels in his bonus room and the rest of the house as well as lower energy bills since.

It essentially prevented alot of the heat that came in from the shingles from even getting into the attic.

The key is using open cell foam. It is so much cheaper than closed cell!

[willyworm]

My FIL runs Sumter Home Insulators but I think he pretty much got out of the spray foam thing altogether. So many cheap skates round hya that no one seemed to understand the benefits or wanted to pay that price tag for foam.

[reeltight]

Encapsulation only works to your benefit if done as an entire system. IE if your walls and floor aren't part of they system then you are paying for some expensive as hell insulation that won't do much more than a R-38 batt system (2 layers of R-19 laid perpendicular to one another). And cut in some eave vents and install baffles to allow air flow.

Think of it this way, you have a Yeti Cooler top sitting on top of one of those plastic milk crates with a block of ice in it sitting in the sun. The top might protect it from the direct sun but it isn't going to keep it from melting. You just got one expensive crate top.

Your statement is only partially true. Yes, it would be a heck of a lot better to do the roof deck, walls, and sub-floor during new construction. But in a remodel, doing the roof deck will most certainly cool your attic temp down tremendously. Leave the insulation on the ceiling (drywall). This is not a total encapsulation, but works extremely well.

Not true. I used to sell it and spray it in. We sprayed open cell foam in the whole roof line of a house on a slab and it cut his attic temp down from 120+ deg to about mid 90's on a hot summer afternoon. He's enjoyed better comfort levels in his bonus room and the rest of the house as well as lower energy bills since.

It essentially prevented alot of the heat that came in from the shingles from even getting into the attic.

The key is using open cell foam. It is so much cheaper than closed cell!

You are correct. I used to run two insulation companies. Guardian Installed Services and TCI.

[Swamp Rat]

One of my co-workers just bought a "fixer upper" house that was built in the mid-1800's... wood siding, wood slat internal walls. No outer insulation. I was thinking this would be a good option for her outside walls at least.

[Southernduck]

Since this on topic, I am getting ready to build a 32x24 workshop. It will be frame construction with a metal roof and metal sides. I want to insulate and install a ceiling. What would be the best bang for buck as far as insulation? Spray the roof and the metal sides, covering the studs? It will have a Concrete floor.

[Saltydog235]

Not true. I used to sell it and spray it in. We sprayed open cell foam in the whole roof line of a house on a slab and it cut his attic temp down from 120+ deg to about mid 90's on a hot summer afternoon. He's enjoyed better comfort levels in his bonus room and the rest of the house as well as lower energy bills since.

It essentially prevented alot of the heat that came in from the shingles from even getting into the attic.

The key is using open cell foam. It is so much cheaper than closed cell!

Do the cost benefit analysis on it vs the energy bill savings when the rest of the house is not well insulated and has drafty windows and doors. It doesn't work out for a long time down the road. If he has say a 50-60% loss from his attic now and the rest is through the windows, doors, walls, crawl, coupled with a HVAC system that isn't efficient then he's pissing his money away. Better spent doing a traditional R-38 overhead and investing the rest in the other areas that are causing issues. By doing the attic alone he mitigates some loss and cuts that 50-60 to say 25-30, he's still losing. Going traditional and spending on other aspects he could reduce the total loss.

Foam has its places but it's expensive. I do a lot of VE on $150+ million jobs, one of the first things they cut is Foam. They'll do rigid, batt and barrier and save $2.00-$3.00/sf.

[willyworm]

When it comes to insulation R-value, foam is always superior. Not to mention the strength the closed cell adds to the structure. Biggest question is can you afford it?

[willyworm]

Salty, I can't argue with that. Every job is different. Of course there are always other factors that you gotta figure in. for the guy I mentioned it worked. It's also very effective when encapsulating crawl space where ground moisture is a looming factor. Cost is 99% of the time the reason people still shy away from it.

[Saltydog235]

Since this on topic, I am getting ready to build a 32x24 workshop. It will be frame construction with a metal roof and metal sides. I want to insulate and install a ceiling. What would be the best bang for buck as far as insulation? Spray the roof and the metal sides, covering the studs? It will have a Concrete floor.

Batt. Not sure what it goes for in the box stores, I'm paying between .28 and .36 for normal R-19. I think it's going up. Last quote I got on open cell was $2.45 and closed cell was $3.65. Gypsum on the ceiling is still the cheapest option unless you can get away with OSB.

[Saltydog235]

When it comes to insulation R-value, foam is always superior. Not to mention the strength the closed cell adds to the structure. Biggest question is can you afford it?

If I had money to burn and build a house I was going to live in a long time, I'd do the entire house in SIPS panels and a Geothermal heating system. But your talking major bucks over traditional.

[willyworm]

Comfort comes at a high price. That's the issue, so many people don't stay put anymore, they only look short term. When done right, in most residential applications, it only takes a few years to pay for itself.

[Saltydog235]

Let's just take round numbers, batt at $.50 sf he installs himself and CCF at $4.00 installed. Say he has a 2,000sf roof. $8,000.00 - $1,000.00 is a $7,000.00 delta. Say that saves him $40.00/mo on his electric bill since he still has a lot of holes that aren't plugged. That comes to 175 mo or 14.5 yrs to make up the difference. Now my math isn't exact by any means since I don't know where the issues lie in the home, the HVAC configuration or how they set it. It could be a year less or more.

Even at 10yrs recoupment it's still a bad investment in this case.

[reeltight]

Bad investment in terms uf money...yes. However foam makes a house feel better. If you are hot natured and can afford foam its a good idea just for the comfort level. Eventually you'll get your money back.

[willyworm]

Even at 10yrs recoupment it's still a bad investment in this case.

Not if you stay there long enough. Or do a little work to reduce the air infiltration on windows.

I know the dollars and cents. I've done all that math. As the world continues to be geared towards being energy conservative, it would be a selling point later even if you didn't stay there. We'll have to agree to disagree on the matter.

[Birddawg]

BPR-
Call me. We need to catch up anyways.

[Trail'nTree]

Just built a house and did the open cell foam, and it is worth it! It was maybe $3000 more then traditional insulation if I remember correctly. I also did a geothermal system on the house, and the last three months electric bill has averaged at $75. You spend a little more upfront, but between tax credits and utility bill savings it is worth it.