Question On Restraint...

[WhitewaterDuck]

You can start killing turkeys here in WY ~April 11 in the north eastern zone of the state...or at least you could three years ago. I had an opportunity to hunt a ranch up there three years ago, so I went. I have that video. I never made a call and had a flock of well over 100 engulf me. I'm thinking that they have/had that opener to actually reduce turkey numbers in that area, as they are THICK up there. If the biologists are opening the northern most region's season earlier and long before any breeding is taking place, it has to be due to their desire to lower the overall turkey numbers by preventing some of the breeding...no other explanation makes sense. So if the biologists here are using early seasons and early harvest to manipulate numbers downward....should be all anyone needs to know regarding what not to do if turkey numbers are low.

I won't hunt here anymore until mid May either. Looking back, shooting a turkey out of a flock of 100+ in winter mode just didn't do it for me.

[Catdaddy]

Any start date prior to April 10th, it logically stands to reason we are negatively impacting recruitment. I don't know exactly how many are not getting bred, but it's certainly significant.

I think this would be a big step in the right direction and we should see an improvement.

Do I think we will jump back to the numbers from 20 years ago? No

Once thinned planted pines are some of the best nesting habitat, IMHO. The needle in the haystack comes into play.(Same for ducks nesting in a winter wheat field).




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[jwilliams]

I don't know the statistics, but I'd imagine the average days in the field has gone up tremendously for a lot of hunters. A lot more people these days have "flexible work schedules" that allow them to hunt on a random Tuesday. 50 years ago most guys were stuck at the factory or in a field somewhere. The thought of getting off early or "working from home" wasn't a reality. That has to have an impact on the resource.

You got that right. Go to the lake on a Tuesday or Thursday and the landing is packed. Not all yanks either. I always ask myself, do people not work anymore?

[MC]

I think this would be a big step in the right direction and we should see an improvement.

Do I think we will jump back to the numbers from 20 years ago? No

Once thinned planted pines are some of the best nesting habitat, IMHO. The needle in the haystack comes into play.(Same for ducks nesting in a winter wheat field).




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Agreed on your first two statements. Regarding your comment about planted pines, I would argue that you evidently have found the secret sauce in how you manage your front yard.

I think it is worth restating that this is not just a South Carolina issue. This is a region-wide decline. The one outlier is North Carolina. They've continued to post recruitment and harvest numbers on the rise. Their season framework is worth noticing. They start near the peak nest initiation date and have had a 2 bird limit for a long time.

Granted there are some distinct differences in NC's turkey population and they may very well end up where the other southeastern states are, but so far they seem to be fairing better than most.

I'm in full favor of lowering the bag limit and moving the start date back to peak nest initiation. Just like Catdaddy, I don't think it is going to be the miracle fix that puts us back where we were, but I do think it stands a decent chance of slowing the bleeding until the research can help identify some other corrective actions and provide some definitive expectations of what those actions can produce.

I'm sympathetic to the really large landowners that could easily support a higher bag limit, wish I was one of them, but also would point out they are a pretty small minority. On the other end of the spectrum, the deer clubs with a member per 100 - 200 acres need to step up and realize the turkey resource probably can't sustain every member going at them as hard as the law will allow, regardless of how many tags they have.

Glenn, I think you are correct that "consensus" is probably never going to be reached across the board, but the positive takeaway I have from the poll results is that somewhere around half of the responses are people that are willing to implement "something" to help the wild turkey without having to be regulated to do it. I wish it was 100%, but glad it's not 1%. At least some of the messaging is getting out and being listened to.

End of the day, it seems highly likely the decline is the result of numerous factors and it is likely different in different parts of the region. It is doubtful that one solution is going to fix it everywhere.

[M2Field]

what does this prove?

you tell that story in front of a club member and he will most certainly shoot back with "my neighbor is corning turkeys."

i'm tired of anecdotal evidence and people continuing to state the same "fact" over and over that is not proven to mean anything.
male turkeys decoys are the problem
if you dont trap predators, you cant have a turkey
sub divisions have ruined turkeys.
etc
etc
etc

i dont know why we keep doing this. none of that shit will change. PEOPLE ARE THE PROBLEM. manage the people. lower the limit. change the dates, THEN you can sit around and talk about the WHY.

around and around we go....

I’m just giving examples of what I’m seeing in the area I hunt and on properties that have very little hunting. And in this case has never allowed turkey hunting yet the population has still crashed. So the point is, it’s not strutter decoys and people shooting birds out of food plots in pop up blinds on these properties that’s for certain. Changing the seasons yet again won’t fix this. That being said it surely can’t hurt but there’s much deeper issues. I think it’s something to do with the weather patterns we’ve had the last 10 years.

[BRR]

I’m just giving examples of what I’m seeing in the area I hunt and on properties that have very little hunting. And in this case has never allowed turkey hunting yet the population has still crashed. So the point is, it’s not strutter decoys and people shooting birds out of food plots in pop up blinds on these properties that’s for certain. Changing the seasons yet again won’t fix this. That being said it surely can’t hurt but there’s much deeper issues. I think it’s something to do with the weather patterns we’ve had the last 10 years.

Or the fact the turkeys don't stay there year round.....

[Catdaddy]

Just 1 back this am. They are eating what I call chic weed(poa annua).

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[2thDoc]

hence my disdain for paying a landowner for habitat work.
I got a yard full of poa annua and not a single turkey.
where's my check?

[Catdaddy]

Only two this am.

[Calibogue]

FYI, the bill is up for vote either tomorrow or Wednesday.

[flockbuster]

FYI, the bill is up for vote either tomorrow or Wednesday.

Do you know what the bill looks like now

[Calibogue]

As I understand, it's as written.....April 10 and two birds

[Calibogue]

And this is for a full house vote, not Senate.....

[tman]

Do you know what the bill looks like now

https://www.scstatehouse.gov/sess125...T%20provision.

[baydog]

FYI, the bill is up for vote either tomorrow or Wednesday.

I will be up there today. I will try and see what happens.

[baydog]

Bill just passed second reading

[Sportin' Woodies]

What does our DNR do to increase game populations other than restrict hunting opportunities?

[2thDoc]

limits people doing people stuff

[tman]

What does our DNR do to increase game populations other than restrict hunting opportunities?

Well, DNR is a regulatory agency. So they "regulate" hunters via restriction.

SC is 90% private land. So if you want to increase game populations, it's probably wise to regulate 90% of private land via rule making.

What do you hope they'll do? Come to your property and feed your turkeys for you and tell you not to cut down down your hardwood trees all the way to the creek bank?

[Quack07]

You really think all they can do is "regulate"? There are many other state agencies that do far more for game populations AND hunting opportunity than SCDNR. Put the country on a dart board, give it a throw and your odds of hitting one of these states are pretty good. Other states provide habitat, and not just in Cat1 management areas that you can only reap the benefits twice a decade if you are lucky.