Suppressor Process Question

[Swamp Rat]

I have a SilencerCo Saker 762. Great can, my "go to" can for AR-15 and future AR-10 work. Great QD system on the SilencerCo Trifecta muzzle brakes, and I can change the 7.62mm end cap for a 5.56mm and turn it in to an even more effective 5.56mm suppressor.

The thing about the Saker 556 K is that, while it's a dedicated 5.56mm can, it's a full 6 ounces lighter (and almost 2 inches shorter) than the 7.62 model. At the end of the day, 6 less ounces of can on the end of a SBR, along with the 2 inches of reduction, are really enticing. It's a want, not a need, and, if they are going to push 41P next month, I may not pursue it.

On the AK - no, I am currently without a Kalashnikov. Considering options down the road, but that's a future addition. I won't suppress it when I get it. Suppressing most AK's is problematic, with the gas venting going on and issues with barrels having less than ideally concentric threading in many cases.

[WoodieSC]

If you obtain a suppressor first, and then apply for a trust, is there any transfer fee or anything to move that suppressor in to the trust?

Also, has anyone analyzed whether there are any distinct advantages to submitting for a trust now vs. under the new laws?

[Tha Dick]

Yes. It will be "transferring" from you to the trust, which means another $200 bucks.

[WoodieSC]

Yes. It will be "transferring" from you to the trust, which means another $200 bucks.

I suspected as such, which seems like robbery to me if the same person who owns the suppressor is also the trustee of the trust.

We need to get Congress to abolish the NFA and refund all previous fees paid. Hell, that would be a drop in the bucket compared to the promises being made by Ol' Bernie.

[Mergie Master]

If you obtain a suppressor first, and then apply for a trust, is there any transfer fee or anything to move that suppressor in to the trust?

Also, has anyone analyzed whether there are any distinct advantages to submitting for a trust now vs. under the new laws?

41F Info

If you want anyone else to be able to possess and use the trust items just make them a co-trustee. I made my son the co-trustee and the beneficiary.

This is where I got my NFA Trust and they have a good FAQ on NFA Trusts

[WoodieSC]

41F Info

If you want anyone else to be able to possess and use the trust items just make them a co-trustee. I made my son the co-trustee and the beneficiary.

This is where I got my NFA Trust and they have a good FAQ on NFA Trusts

It's been a little while since I've looked at this stuff, and need to decide what to do soon, but this point quoted below is opposite from what I thought I remembered from something I read a few months back. OR... my memory is just going bad...

Is there a limit to the number of Co-Trustees?

A: No limit, however, keep in mind that they need to sign and notarize the Trust initially. Also an important consideration is the new stuff starting July 2016 with 41F and Co-Trustee need to submit fingerprint cards and photographs (see HERE for more info on that). We include amendment templates for you to amend the Trust at your convenience to make these and other changes down the road. It’s simple to do so don’t feel like you need to include the extended family off the bat, remember our Trusts are flexible in the future as a rule.

I could have sworn that 41F eliminated the need for fingerprints and pictures, which was why I was thinking of waiting instead of applying under 41P.

Anyway, given that, please allow me to repeat the question I asked above...

Also, has anyone analyzed whether there are any distinct advantages to submitting for a trust now vs. under the new laws?

Thanks!

[Swamp Rat]

Don't hold your breath on any changes.

[WoodieSC]

LOL... I hear you. It would make too much sense.

[Mergie Master]

Also, has anyone analyzed whether there are any distinct advantages to submitting for a trust now vs. under the new laws?

If you establish the trust before July 13 (41F start date) it will be grandfathered and you won't have to:

• Complete an ATF Form 5320.23. Form 5320.23 would require certain identifying information for each responsible person, including each responsible person’s full name, position, Social Security number (optional), home address, date and place of birth, and country of citizenship;

• Submit a 2 x 2-inch passport style photographs of each responsible person taken within 1 year prior to the date of the application;

• Submit two properly completed FBI Forms FD-258 (Fingerprint Card) for each responsible person.

• You and any Co-Trustees on the Trust will be required when submitting a tax stamp application to notify the Sheriff, but WILL NOT require their “approval”. (“requires that a copy of all applications to make or transfer a firearm, and the specified form for responsible persons, as applicable, be forwarded to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the applicant/transferee or responsible person is located; and eliminates the requirement for a certification signed by the CLEO”)

If you don't have the trust established (signed, witnessed and notarized) before 41F kicks in you will have to take all the steps above when you purchase an item.

[WoodieSC]

If you establish the trust before July 13 (41F start date) it will be grandfathered and you won't have to:

• Complete an ATF Form 5320.23. Form 5320.23 would require certain identifying information for each responsible person, including each responsible person’s full name, position, Social Security number (optional), home address, date and place of birth, and country of citizenship;

• Submit a 2 x 2-inch passport style photographs of each responsible person taken within 1 year prior to the date of the application;

• Submit two properly completed FBI Forms FD-258 (Fingerprint Card) for each responsible person.

• You and any Co-Trustees on the Trust will be required when submitting a tax stamp application to notify the Sheriff, but WILL NOT require their “approval”. (“requires that a copy of all applications to make or transfer a firearm, and the specified form for responsible persons, as applicable, be forwarded to the chief law enforcement officer (CLEO) of the locality in which the applicant/transferee or responsible person is located; and eliminates the requirement for a certification signed by the CLEO”)

If you don't have the trust established (signed, witnessed and notarized) before 41F kicks in you will have to take all the steps above when you purchase an item.

Mergie,

I don't mean to argue with your point here, but I've just been advised differently on this point regarding the date on the Trust.

Inasmuch as I've gotten too busy with other stuff and forgot about getting a Trust set up, I debated whether to run around today to get one notarized, etc, because of this statement above, which seemed to make all the sense in the world based on 'Grandfathering' as we all know it.

I've also not been able to find any of the .22 suppressors I'm interested in, in stock, so this Trust question became a key point to me.

However, I just talked to the lawyer who operates the NFA Lawyers LLC web site - https://nfalawyers.com - and asked him if it made ANY difference to the procedures followed when submitting any NFA application after tomorrow as to whether I had a Trust set up before 7/13/2016 versus on or after 7/13/2016. His response was an unequivocal, "No. No matter what date is on your Trust - pre or post 7/13/2016 - you will have to submit fingerprints, pictures, etc, with any NFA item application."

He could have told me 'Yes' and had a sale right there, with me running up to the bank to have it notarized today, but he said it made no difference on whether I would have to submit fingerprints and pictures, et al, after tomorrow. The ONLY difference would be if I actually submitted/postmarked the NFA application today, but anything submitted after tomorrow goes under the new rules, no matter how old your Trust is.

He was the only actual lawyer I could get on the phone this morning so I'm going to make the assumption that he knows what he's talking about.

Does anyone know anything about this that might conflict with what I've just posted? If so, please post up!

[realtorman]

A suppressed .300 Blackout with subsonic rounds sounds like a .22 and is extremely accurate to 100 yards, which makes it the perfect short-range meat gun!

[BIGDUX]

Does anyone know the pros/cons of trust vs LLC for NFA items?

[Swamp Rat]

From what I've been told, the advantage to a trust vs a personal purchase is essentially gone. If your concern was passing the suppressor or other item to someone upon your death, it can be done without being on a trust so long as that person is an heir in the will. And I think it's only a $5 transfer.

[Palmetto Bug]

During the probate period, the NFA item in an estate might have to be held by a class III dealer. If it's in a trust, the other trust members can possess it immediately.

An LLC has to be registered with the Secretary of State. A 199 Trust does not.

[Palmetto Bug]

Silencerco has a "free" ($5 shipping fee) guide to buying a suppressor.

https://silencerco.com/suppressed/

I just ordered it and will post an update once I see it.

[tprice]

Not sure this is accurate but someone told me if you have a business that is a Corporation you can buy the suppressor and register it with that corporation and it is just property of the corp and this keeps you from having to set up a separate trust just for the suppressor

[Palmetto Bug]

That's pretty much what the trust is, like an LLC. I'm not sure I'd want to tie my business to the suppressor. If it was ever used in even a justified shooting, your business could be listed as a defendant in a any civil suit. One of the most important functions of a trust or corporation or LLC is to separate the liability exposure of the entities.

Setting up a trust is pretty simple. Some of the dealers have the process so streamlined it's a non-issue. I heard of one that has a kiosk for setting everything up.

[tprice]

That's pretty much what the trust is, like an LLC. I'm not sure I'd want to tie my business to the suppressor. If it was ever used in even a justified shooting, your business could be listed as a defendant in a any civil suit. One of the most important functions of a trust or corporation or LLC is to separate the liability exposure of the entities.

Setting up a trust is pretty simple. Some of the dealers have the process so streamlined it's a non-issue. I heard of one that has a kiosk for setting everything up.

Thanks, not worried about the liability of it in one of the businesses . I keep retained earnings low in that one and not really much in way of assets.

[Silentweapon338]

You can, but either one still requires a responsible persons form for all involved using it.

Because a Corp is usually a defined entity for its real purpose it i hard to add subtract folks like you can on a Trust.

[tprice]

You can, but either one still requires a responsible persons form for all involved using it.

Because a Corp is usually a defined entity for its real purpose it i hard to add subtract folks like you can on a Trust.

Thanks, not sure that would be an issue since I would be the only one using it and am sole owner of the Corp. It does have employees other than me

Not really big deal, I can set up a trust with no problem